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#1
Yesterday, 4:29 pm
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Is Joining An Option?
I have started sincerely praying that God direct my decision about
joining the Catholic Church. This is scary for me given all I’ve gone
through the last 6 months; I don’t want it all to have been in vain. Of
course, any spiritual lesson is not in vain, so I have to open myself up
to the possibility that God sent me on this rabbit hunt (so-to-speak)
for a reason other than finding rabbits. In an effort to fully open
myself up to all possibilities, I want to validate the notion that
joining the Catholic Church is not necessary for attaining salvation.
(ref. Lumen Gentium, #15)
* You see, if joining is necessary for salvation, then it ceases to an option to consider. Being outside the Catholic Church would mean being outside sanctifying grace; therefore, joining is a matter of survival and the decision is forced. However, if salvation can be found through honest and sincere devotion to Christ in my current ecclesial community (churches of Christ), then any motivation to join the Catholic Church will be rooted in*love for the Trinity and a desire find God’s fullness of truth in a deeper way. * As I understand it, once Catholic/always Catholic. LG #14 – “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” I will not refuse to enter, as this quote states. I just want to know if I have the freedom to consider the possibility of staying put in the churches of Christ for a period of time 
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#2
Yesterday, 5:04 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
This is a personal account, and therefore private revelation and you
can do with it what you like - accept it, reject it, or just ignore it.
But I'm putting it here as I think it's relevant to your situation.
I used to be Presbyterian, but had a very wise old pastor who was Methodist by training. He was also prophetic, and I found that if he said something, it nearly always happened. His main fault was that he could be very discouraging. At one point we were discussing the Catholic / Protestant divide, and he surprised me by remarking that "I sometimes wonder if Protestants get into heaven." He went on to say he didn't think God accepted the division of His church, and that "some of the things Luther said and did weren't very Christian". Naturally this surprised me a bit, and I said to him, "Well, if you believe that, why are you still a Protestant?" He thought about it for a minute, and replied, "They (Catholic Church) have done a lot of damage at times." And we left it at that, but obviously it left me wondering a bit. Anyway after he died himself, I had this brief vision (and I do get them), when he appeared and simply said, "We're not in heaven. We're all in Purgatory. Oh, we're not suffering any pain, so you don't have to worry about that! In fact it's pretty good around here (and here he seemed to be rather impressed.)." Then he repeated his first opening, "But we're not in heaven." Then he just disappeared. Now the night he actually died, some time before, I had a real sense of peace around 2 or 3am in the morning, and it lasted for a a good half an hour. This was apparently about the time he passed on. So there has been some limited spiritual contact. What you want to make of it is up to you, but I know what I beleive. My own belief is that Protestants don't get into heaven, and they'll have to wait till the church reunifies under the office of the Rock, or the Shepherd of the Sheep just as Christ indicated when he first founded HIs church on Peter, so long ago. It's men who have divided Christ's Church, not God, and I think the devil has a vested interest in keeping it divided. It's a very, very poor witness to the world for a start. It's up to you. But you're not going to gain anything by procrastinating.
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#3
Yesterday, 5:25 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
__________________
"The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love." -Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P
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#4
Yesterday, 5:34 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
Why would you want to stay put if you are aware of the truth in the Catholic Church? That would be rejecting the truth. Protestant churches do not have the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Those who are in Protestant Churches but who are not aware that there is the fullness of Christ's truth in the Catholic Church are not guilty of rejecting the truth. However, they may be guilty of they suspect it is true but do nothing about it.
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#5
Yesterday, 5:45 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
The same could be said for an atheist who does not truly understand Christianity as the way for salvation and that God does exist, and that God loves him/her. If they follow God's will to the best of their knowledge and ability, even if they do not know it is God's will, they may be saved, by God's infinite mercy. So, rejection involves more than just understanding a claim, it involves knowing and understanding the claim as the truth, but turning away from it.
__________________
St. Bernard, pray for us! Help us to fight for truth, Help us to know truth, Help us to follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. St. Bernard of Clairvaux
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#6
Yesterday, 5:50 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Re: Bob Crowley's post - I do believe in these kind of experiences. I
don't doubt that it happened, I just wonder if what was communicated to
you was the truth. We'll all find out soon enough I suppose.
I'm a baptized Christian, so all I need to enter into full communion with the Church is Confession, then Confirmation. I've requested this twice; once to our priest and once to our RCIA director. The priest said wait until next Easter; the RCIA director said pray to see if this is where God wants you, and depending on His answer, we'll shoot for Dec. 8th. I was pretty zealous about Confirmation, so as I drove home after each of these requests I considered finding a bored priest in a nearby small town who would happily confirm me (I'm not sure if I would really do this, but I wondered if it was possible). No one seems to be in a big hurry to bring me into full communion. So, I'm wondering if I'm already heaven-bound and have to make a decision which Christian community I believe has the fullness of truth. If I weren't heaven-bound, then why isn't there some sense of urgency to bring me into full communion?
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#7
Yesterday, 5:57 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Theophilus, first of all, congratulations on starting the journey.
The first part of the journey is to feel a call. Jesus wishes all
people to join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by
Himself. He commisioned His Church to work for the salvation of souls
and guide all on the pathway to Heaven, the gates of which He opened
with His death and resurrection. The problem is, our Lord's Church is
filled with sinners, and we have caused many to stumble and fall.
Actions of a very small percentage of priests have scandalized many.
The definition of the sin of scandal is any sin that (a) causes another
to sin or (b) causes another to lose faith in or refuse to accept
Jesus's Church. Jesus Himself stated that it would be better if a
millstone were hung around the neck of a person who committed the sin of
scandal with that person being thrown into the sea. Do not be allow
yourself to be scandalized by some of the people in the Church - focus
on the fact that Jesus loves you, wants you to be with Him, and that the
Way that Jesus gave to bring people to Him involves His Church and His
Sacraments.
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#8
Yesterday, 5:58 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
__________________
St. Bernard, pray for us! Help us to fight for truth, Help us to know truth, Help us to follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. St. Bernard of Clairvaux
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#9
Yesterday, 6:02 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
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#10
Yesterday, 6:14 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
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If you know the Catholic Church is where God is leading you, why try to take a short-cut and miss out on the many benefits of RCIA?  And so you'll know, I went through it myself. It's more than just classes, there are rites and minor exorcisms within the process that are of spiritual benefit to you, and one of them is being confirmed in the faith by the Bishop. You don't want to miss that! Then there is the presentation to, and examination made, by the parish. The scrutinies. It's not just you, it's you and the Church. Together. No, there is no short-cut through the process of RCIA. It is designed to prepare you to enter into the fullness of communion, not just eating the bread and drinking the wine, but true fullness in faith. One. Holy. Catholic. Apostolic. I cannot describe the joy and beauty that I experienced during Easter Vigil, when I was first permitted to take communion and be fully Catholic. It was wonderful. Why deny yourself something so good and holy? God bless you on your journey. Press on. Stay the course. Praying...
__________________
Michael Augustine
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#11
Yesterday, 6:17 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
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Second, only bishops can confirm, unless a priest has been so delegated by his own bishop (often, priests are delegated by bishops for the Easter Vigil, as every parish has an Easter Vigil, but there is often only one bishop per diocese - though some larger dioceses have "auxiliary bishops"). This goes back to the early days in the church, as Confirmation is considered "baptism by the Holy Spirit", and this was done by the apostles. This may be why the RCIA director said that they would try for December 8 - there may be an adult confirmation already scheduled in your diocese for that date. It's not that they're not in a hurry to bring you into the Church - it's logistics, plain and simple.
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#12
Yesterday, 6:21 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
The usual method these days is to take RCIA classes for about two years ( these usually meet once a week ). These classes do not bind you to join the Church, but at the end of the course you will be given the oportunity of joining the Church. If at any time during the course you become absolutely convinced the Catholic Church is what she says she is, you believe all that she teaches and you decide you should join, from that moment you are a Catholic, even though you have not yet received the Sacraments. From that moment you would be morally bound to take the final steps of receiving the Sacraments and commit yourself to a fully Catholic life. From that moment you would not be morally free to stay outside of communion with the Church. Oops. Just noticed you are already in RCIA. Linus2nd
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#13
Yesterday, 6:22 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Praying for you...
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#14
Yesterday, 7:07 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
Quote:
I too didn't want to wait until Easter back in December 2011, when I approached the Catholic church to join. In January I got sick for a month and dropped out. Which I'm so glad I did because the full journey through RCIA was more than worth coming back and starting over in Sept. I know that it may seem like a long time but it is well worth the time you put into it. Not only that but I got to meet so many members of the parish just through the RCIA process. I didn't expect to have to wait a year and 4 months to join at first, but I can tell you I would do it all over again. About finding salvation outside the church, I think that applies to people who otherwise live a good life, but do not know that the Catholic church contains the truth, meaning had they know then they would have done it before death. But if you know the Catholic church is true but then don't want to join, mainly because of the time to wait, well, I don't know about that.
__________________
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#15
Yesterday, 7:12 pm
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Re: Is Joining An Option?
First of all, you guys ROCK! Thank you for the support. I do fully
agree with all the Church teaches, and I do fully believe the church
Jesus Christ established is found in the Catholic church today. I
believed this when I started RCIA based on my own personal study, and I
find myself on fire for this belief all the more today. I already feel
Catholic; I just can't participate in the Eucharist. I find myself
quietly defending her teachings, correcting misunderstandings, and
defending Pope Francis's world trips. I don't want to skip RCIA. I want
to continue with the program 'til its bitter end.
You see, I simply want to receive the basic graces everyone else has around me at mass. I'm disheartened when I explain to my catholic friends when it's proper to genuflect or when to bow before taking one's seat, or explaining to them that the sacrament of penance is not simply an annual requirement, but is to absolve mortal sin so one can receive the Eucharist in a worthy manner. Why do they get to participate fully harboring the fruits of the Holy Spirit received at Confirmation and I have to wait? Why to they get to receive the graces to resist mortal sin available through the Eucharisted Host, while I sit and watch? I love the Trinity with all my heart. I will do whatever He's calling me to do. I cannot go back to my old church because it's so empty of meaning. I want my daily life to be a sacrifice to God. I firmly believe I can do this better with the full graces received through Christ's church. I just don't get how anyone could deny the full graces of the Trinity available to all who sincerely seek, and ask. A few days ago, the passage of scripture I read with my daughter included Matt 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find, knock, and it will be opened to you." I was so exited to share with her the idea that anything we seek spiritually, God will practically fall over himself trying to give it to us, because this is exactly what God desires for all humanity - for us to fervently seek him, and He will shower His blessings upon us. Isn't this right? |
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